Cnn late Edition With Wolf Blitzer

Continued from Part III

CNN LATE EDITION WITH WOLF BLITZER 12:00 October 10, 2004 Sunday

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SHOW: CNN LATE EDITION WITH WOLF BLITZER 12:00

October 10, 2004 Sunday

Transcript # 101001CN.V47

SPERLING: Wolf, Senator Kerry has been completely consistent on trade. This has always been his philosophy. He is for open markets, he is for United States engaging in the global economy, but he believes that, when we have trade agreements, we ought to enforce them, and we ought to make sure that we have labor and environmental standards.

And on outsourcing, what Senator Kerry has said is that you can't stop all outsourcing. What he has fought so hard on is to say, you can stop the incentives to outsource jobs.

Senator Kerry is saying, how can it be that, when we have two companies in the United States, that we give one company -- and they're thinking about expanding jobs -- that we tell the company that wants to go to Malaysia or the Cayman Islands, "We'll give you a tax break," but the one who wants to create jobs in Columbus, Ohio, or Michigan, is going to actually pay higher taxes?

He wants to end the tax incentives for moving jobs overseas, and take that money so that we can lower taxes 5 percent across the board.

It is Senator Kerry who is running with lower business taxes, have a new jobs tax credit, give tax cuts to small businesses for new jobs, and help -- Senator Kerry has been consistent.

You're right. He has always supported open markets. This year, he has also supported extending the Africa free trade agreement, but he does want them to be enforced with high labor and environmental standards. That has always been his position.

BLITZER: Gene Sperling, we'll leave it right there. Thanks very much for joining us.

SPERLING: Thank you.

BLITZER: Coming up, we'll get a quick check of what's making news right now, including word that's just in about a group of Turkish hostages in Iraq.

And down the home stretch, we'll ask two political veterans, Marc Racicot and Bill Richardson, to look down at the campaign trail and to look ahead to the finish line.

Stay with "LATE EDITION."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Welcome back to "LATE EDITION."

Two down in presidential debates, one to go next Wednesday night. Both candidates crisscrossing the country right now. As many as 15 states, maybe even more, up for grabs.

To help us sort out the state of political play here in the United States, two political pros: from Albuquerque, New Mexico, that state's governor, Bill Richardson. Here in Washington, Marc Racicot. He's the chairman of the Bush-Cheney campaign. He's the former governor of Montana.

Gentlemen, thanks very much for joining us.

And, Governor Racicot, I'll begin with you. Three weeks to go and counting, an incumbent president at a time of war basically fighting for his political life right now. Why is it so close?

MARC RACICOT, CHAIRMAN, BUSH-CHENEY CAMPAIGN: Well, there are all kinds of theories that people have. Of course, we believed from the beginning -- you and I have talked about it a number of times -- that this was going to be a very close election.

The issues are very difficult, the world is challenging and, certainly, there's many challenges that all of us confront here in this country. And the fact is, we have been politically divided, I think, for some period of time, very closely, I think, subscribing to one philosophy or another.

So it's just a very challenging time. The democracy is healthy and vibrant, however, and enduring and very, very prosperous.

BLITZER: A lot of people, Governor Richardson, have questions, serious questions, about the incumbent president of the United States, but they're not yet convinced that John Kerry is the best person to replace him. Why has he had such a hard time closing this deal?

GOV. BILL RICHARDSON (D), NEW MEXICO: The two debates that have taken place have shown to a lot of voters in America, especially undecided voters, that Senator Kerry has the strength, the character, the background to be president. He's fit to be commander in chief.

And I believe that these debates that are basically unscripted, where the American people see the two candidates without their advisers, without their TV commercials, and they take a measure of the individuals.

And I think what you're going to see, Wolf, after this third debate in Tempe, Arizona, is clearly that Senator Kerry is not just fit to be commander in chief, but he is somebody with a plan to get us out of Iraq in a sensible way, a domestic plan that deals with health, jobs and the economy.

But I think most importantly, a man of substance and experience and integrity, good humor, that is measured by the American people as ready to take over. I think that's the most important result of these debates.

And then after the debates, it's all going to be turnout, turning out your base and turning out your voters, mobilizing, and that's where the electioneering starts.

BLITZER: You don't disagree with that, do you, Governor Racicot?

RACICOT: Most strenuously, in terms of whether or not Senator Kerry has the background and the back bone to be president of the United States of America.

I think I agree on the tactics. We're going to have to all work very, very hard to make sure we get our voters to the polls and we appeal to new voters to get into the process and become a part of our effort.

BLITZER: What's your biggest problem, though, with Senator Kerry? Why doesn't he necessarily have the backbone to be president of the United States?

RACICOT: Well, I think he's completely impotent to articulate a clear position on Iraq. I mean, if you were to say to him -- if somebody was to say to you, "I agree with Senator Kerry's position on the war on terror," what would you discern that to be? Does it mean you are for the intervention, as you voted for, to go into Iraq? Does it mean you're the anti-war candidate? Does it mean it's the wrong war at the wrong time at the wrong place?

This morning, Wolf -- let me add, this morning, a new approach to this in the Sunday New York Times magazine, where Senator Kerry said that the war on terrorism is like a nuisance. He equated it to prostitution and gambling, a nuisance activity.

You know, quite frankly, I just don't think he has the right view of the world. It's a pre-9/11 view of the world.

BLITZER: What about that, Governor Richardson?

RICHARDSON: Well, I think Senator Kerry has said that the number-one threat to America is international terrorism, al Qaeda.

And just today, we had these elections in Afghanistan. Had we put more resources to bring more stability there -- I was there in Afghanistan in 1998. Instead of focusing so intently with $400 billion and our manpower in Iraq, we would have more stable situations, not just in the Persian Gulf. We'd have strong alliances with NATO. We'd have more stability in Afghanistan.

And what you're seeing is a president in the debates with no plan. He's justifying why he intervened in Iraq, but no exit plan, no reconstruction plan, no vision of America and the world. I think that was very evident in the debates.

BLITZER: What are you talking about $400 billion? What's that?

RICHARDSON: Well, $200 billion that we have spent in Iraq and untold projection of $400 billion just if we stay within the next two to three years. So, that's what I'm talking about.

BLITZER: All right.

RICHARDSON: A huge expenditure. America 90 percent of the costs, 90 percent of the troops.

And elsewhere in the world, what is our vision? What is our foreign policy? We are so stuck on Iraq that we failed to see the parameters of a global world that is challenging us, in North Korea and Iran, the failure of our strength and our alliances. That was articulated very clearly in the debates.

BLITZER: Let's Governor Racicot respond to that.

Go ahead.

RACICOT: Well, Governor Richardson, with all due respect -- he is a friend -- he's wrong. He's just as wrong as Senator Kerry was.

BLITZER: What's he wrong on?

RACICOT: He's wrong on $200 billion being spent in Iraq. He's wrong on the amount of...

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: ... $120 billion. But he's looking down the road the next few years. It's presumably going to be...

RACICOT: That's programmed through September of 2005.

But in addition to that, Wolf, let's take a look at the mistakes that these people make. And I believe they're purposeful.

They allege expenditures that are way higher than what they are.

They allege, of course, that you shouldn't include the Iraqis, who are fighting for their freedom, when you've put together the amount of injury and damage and death that has occurred as a result. And that when you do that, of course, we sustain a grievous burden. But it's about half of the burden.

In addition to that, they go on with other allegations of error, that the resources in Afghanistan were less because we went into Iraq.

BLITZER: But, Governor Racicot...

RACICOT: The fact of the matter is, they're larger in Afghanistan.

BLITZER: ... if the U.S. does spend the next two, four, six years in Iraq, it's going to be in the $400 billion category.

RACICOT: But, Wolf, the arguments they make are wrong on the facts. If their facts are wrong, their positions are wrong and waffling. And they just simply change from day to day.

BLITZER: I want to let Governor Richardson respond to that.

But I also want you to respond to what the president said at the debate Friday night in St. Louis, Governor Richardson, because it comes to the core of the attack of John Kerry, namely that he's wishy- washy. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: For a while, he was a strong supporter of getting rid of Saddam Hussein. He saw the wisdom until the Democratic primary came along and Howard Dean, the anti-war candidate, began to gain on him. And he changed positions.

I don't see how you can lead this country in a time of war, in a time of uncertainty, if you change your mind because of politics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Governor Richardson, go ahead.

RICHARDSON: Well, I think the president is wrong. He just makes these simple statements that have no basis in fact and attempt to divide the country.

What Senator Kerry has said is he voted to give the president authority, authority to take military action. When the president took that authority, he failed to bring the allies together, he failed to have an exit plan, a reconstruction plan. The implications of putting so much financial and troop support into Iraq, at the expense of North Korea, Iran, other parts of the world, became so evident.

And so Senator Kerry then questions the conduct of the war in Iraq, questions the exit plan, and the president makes those assertions.

I think what Senator Kerry is clearly stating is that Iraq is a mess and he wants to clean it up.

And my good friend Governor Racicot keeps saying, "Well, you're talking about amounts and facts. It's not $200 billion. It's $120 billion." It's still a mistake.

We should be spending that money, whether it's $200 billion, $120 billion or $400 billion in schools in New Mexico and roads in the West, where Governor Racicot is from, and the needs for homeland security: first responders, cops, firefighters to protect the homeland.

But now, here we are in this mess in Iraq that is continuing, that has no end in site, and there is no strategy in site. Look what Ambassador Bremer said: We needed more troops. My God, I mean, there's just no policy.

BLITZER: I'm going to let Governor Racicot respond, and then we'll take a quick break.

But do it briefly.

RACICOT: Well, it's difficult to do it briefly. My God, he has so many different positions, it's hard to articulate in a short period of time.

I mean, just take a look at the debate the other night. He said, "I've always believed that Saddam Hussein was a threat." In the campaign, he said, "Any person who doesn't see Saddam Hussein as a threat doesn't have the credibility or the judgment to be president."

Then two lines down in the transcript or a few pages forward in the transcript, he says, "The president has been preoccupied with Iraq, and there's no threat there."

Well, where is it that this murderous dictator, Saddam Hussein, lived and operated but in Iraq? I mean, he cannot -- he is impotent to articulate a clear vision about the war on terror.

BLITZER: But aren't you embarrassed that the whole rationale, at least most of the rationale for the war -- the weapons of mass destruction, the stockpiles, the chemical weapons, the biological weapons, the nuclear capabilities potentially -- all of that simply has not proven to be true?

RACICOT: You mean the very things that both Senator Kerry and the president of the United States believe that...

BLITZER: But this is the Bush administration that's responsible for the intelligence community, not the Congress.

RACICOT: The whole universe believed that, Wolf.

BLITZER: Based on what the Bush administration...

RACICOT: The British didn't base their judgment on that.

BLITZER: They say they did.

RACICOT: The French didn't.

BLITZER: They say they got their information from the CIA.

RACICOT: Every intelligence agency on the planet had the same conclusion. So did Senator Kerry.

BLITZER: But that was largely based on what the CIA was telling everyone.

RACICOT: That was never the only basis for...

BLITZER: Never the only, but largely.

RACICOT: Who says it was largely?

BLITZER: That's what they all say.

RACICOT: No, you had a murderous dictator who had committed atrocious crimes against humanity, murdering thousands and thousands of his own people, shooting at our airplanes, preparing for another war, a strategic retreat from putting together weapons of mass destruction, retaining the capability to do so.

After 9/11, how could anyone draw any other conclusion other than Senator Kerry?

BLITZER: Now, there were other people that drew other conclusions. But we'll pick up that thought. So stand by, Governor Racicot.

Stand by, Governor Richardson.

We have a lot more talk about. We'll pick up this conversation with both governors. And they'll also be taking your phone calls when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: He talks about Medicare. You've been in the United States Senate 20 years. Show me one accomplishment toward Medicare that he accomplished.

I've been in Washington, D.C., three and a half years and led the Congress to reform Medicare, so our seniors have got a better, modern health-care system.

That's what leadership is all about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The president at the debate in St. Louis Friday night.

Welcome back to "LATE EDITION." We're continuing our conversation with Bush-Cheney campaign chairman Marc Racicot and New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson, a strong supporter of Senator Kerry.

What about that issue that Senator Kerry really has no accomplishments during 20 years in the Senate that he could be proud of and, as a result, he's not fit to be president?

RICHARDSON: Well, I think that's false.

In the foreign affairs area, it was Senator Kerry that led the effort on the POW/MIAs, normalization of relations with Vietnam, on international environmental issues, on the cops on the street, the 100,000 cops on the street, on welfare reform.

He has broad accomplishments. And I think for the president to say -- there is a difference between a president and a senator from the minority party in the Senate, who has done more on Medicare.

The problem is that on Medicare what the president has now given us is a Medicare plan that is unaffordable, that now costs -- the premiums now cost 17 percent more than when the bill was passed.

And I don't know if those were false statistics, but what we have here is a huge expenditure in a health-care program that is not bringing more coverage to the American people, lower prescription drugs.

And the good thing about the debate in Arizona is it's going to be strictly on domestic issues -- health care, education, the economy -- where we believe Senator Kerry has a plan, has an articulated vision, and President Bush is rather weak in those areas.

BLITZER: There is much greater expenditures now, greater cost to Medicare recipients than in the past.

RACICOT: Unquestionably. The United States of America, the Congress and the president have made a decision, a policy decision to invest, to help our seniors make certain that they receive appropriate medical care.

But, you know, Governor Richardson indicated just a moment ago that the increase in premiums is somehow the cause of action here that results with this administration.

Senator Kerry and his compatriots voted for that back in 1998 or '97. It was automatic. There's virtually nothing that could have been done about it by the president of the United States.

What he said...

BLITZER: But what the president could have done then -- this was a question raised during the debate in St. Louis Friday night. The president could have taken steps over the past four years to allow American seniors and others to purchase cheaper drugs from Canada, safe, secure, but that has not happened.

RACICOT: Well, safe, secure is the key.

BLITZER: But he has had four years to work out that arrangement.

RACICOT: Safe and secure.

This president is the only one in the last 40 years, Republican or Democrat, who had the courage and the capacity to work in a bipartisan way to reshape the Medicare system. For the first time ever, a prescription drug benefit plan.

You know, this is, for states like mine and Governor Richardson's, all kinds of efforts to bring rural health care to our seniors that were never there before, it was a wonderful bipartisan accomplishment.

And for people to suggest that somehow the president is responsible for this Medicare increase that Senator Kerry voted for and all of his compatriots, it's just wrong.

BLITZER: What about that, Governor Richardson?

RICHARDSON: Well, Marc needs to spend more time out west in Montana. He's listening too much to what's happening in Washington.

The reality is that the Medicare initiative of the president's, which was exactly one year ago, first of all, is costing the taxpayer 33 percent more in billions of dollars that, when the bill was passed, wasn't out there, the premiums.

Now, Marc, you know, this is from a result of this last Medicare initiative of the president. It's costing seniors 17 percent more. You can't blame that on the '98 or '97 vote. You can't do that. These are the facts.

The president is unwilling to let Canada have -- here's Canada. It's an industrialized nation, our sister nation. Are we saying that in Canada the prescription drugs are not safe and secure? Come on. It's the drug company saying, "Don't do this because it hurts our profits."

It's the drug companies and the president saying, "We don't want to negotiate with HMOs for lower prices." This is respecting and responding to their constituency. That's all it is.

RACICOT: Governor, that is patent nonsense. The fact of the matter is, the central part of this inquiry has to do with safety, the safety of the consumers of this country.

The president indicated the other night during the debate, if we can't put in place a system that ensures safety for all of those who consume, then we can move in that direction. If we can't, then we can't move in that direction. It's just that simple.

These increases in Medicare were scheduled, Bill. They were scheduled by the United States Congress during the Clinton administration.

BLITZER: Unfortunately, gentlemen, we're going to have to leave it right there. We'll continue, though, this discussion down the road, I promise both of you.

Marc Racicot, thanks very much.

Bill Richardson, thanks to you, as well. See you out west. We're all heading towards Arizona. I don't know if you're going to be there, but it's not far from New Mexico.

Appreciate it very much.

We'll take a quick break. More "LATE EDITION" when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Let's take a look and see what's on the cover of this week's major news magazines here in the United States.

Time magazine features Bush, Kerry and the battle for every last vote.

Newsweek asks, "Will your vote be counted?"

And U.S. News and World Report looks at the warrior elite inside the special forces.

And that's your "LATE EDITION" for Sunday, October 10th.

Please be sure to join me next Sunday and every Sunday at noon eastern for the last word in Sunday talk.

I'm here Monday through Friday, twice a day, at noon and 5 p.m. eastern.

Don't forget to tune into CNN's complete coverage of the third and final presidential debate Wednesday night. I'll be reporting from there, the campus of Arizona State University.

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